Child, Teen, Adult: Discovering Your Authentic Self amidst Life's Challenges

Welcome to "Your Authentic Self," the podcast where we explore the different parts of ourselves and how they shape our lives. In today's episode, titled "Child, Teen, Adult: Discovering Your Authentic Self amidst Life's Challenges,"  Lee and Mark, will be diving deep into the topic of the importance of cultivating an adult mindset to drive our choices and decisions, rather than being controlled by our child or teenage selves. They explore how childhood needs for love and affection can still influence us in our adult relationships, and the potential dysfunction that can arise from expecting our partners to fulfill those needs.

Throughout the episode, Lee and Mark stress the significance of self-awareness and self-regulation, and the powerful role it plays in fostering understanding and support within our relationships. They share personal experiences and insights, shedding light on how traumatic experiences in childhood can have lasting effects on our adult lives.

Join us in this thought-provoking conversation as we explore the concept of emotional muscle and the journey towards greater self-compassion, self-soothing, and emotional regulation. Discover how the teenage self emerges as a protector of our vulnerable inner child, and how bringing awareness to these different parts of ourselves can positively influence our present-day experiences.

Through their candid revelations and powerful tools for personal growth, Lee and Mark remind us of the importance of building trust, vulnerability, and communication not only with our partners, but also with ourselves. They share strategies for effectively managing triggers and emotional states, and guide us towards redefining our relationship with challenging aspects of ourselves.

So, grab a cup of tea, find a cozy spot, and join us for this insightful episode where we learn about the power of self-compassion, the impact of our internal dialogue, and the transformative nature of embracing our authentic selves. Don't forget to like, share, and follow our podcast for more episodes like this. Stay tuned!

02:50 Teenage years bring rebelliousness and independence. Teen protects younger self from harm.
03:38 Connection to adult self impacted by past.
07:21 Worked hard to look after everyone, dysfunctional family.
13:20 Caregivers help us regulate emotions during trauma.
15:39 Teenager's rebelliousness and child's vulnerability observed.
17:24 Teenage self advises against trusting relationships.
21:57 Adult relationships can meet child's needs.
24:00 Explaining adult responsibility, communicating, and owning actions.
27:08 Teen self rejected therapy to protect child self. Adult self feels vulnerable, demands accountability.
32:17 Disconnect emotionally due to childhood trauma.
35:35 Identifying child, teenage, and adult emotions.
36:54 Hated it, but found comfort at grandparents'.
41:48 Attention diverted to children, teenager rebels, adult helps.
45:25 Parenting struggle during imperfect and busy week.
47:24 Compassion and love are essential.
50:30 End of episode, like, share, follow. Contact us.


self-talk, internal dialogue, adult mindset, childlike behaviors, self-awareness, self-regulation, childhood needs, dysfunction, understanding and support, Your Authentic Self, child, teen, adult, traumatic experiences, frozen child self, teenage protector, emotional muscle, disconnecting emotionally, emotional capacity, not good enough, people-pleasing tendencies, validation and affirmation, childhood neglect, lack of love and attention, violence, therapy, emotional vulnerability, emotional regulation, isolation and loneliness, self-soothing, triggers and emotional

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www.markhartshorn.co.uk
www.leekanecounselling.co.uk

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Transcript

0:02

Your authentic self is a podcast designed to guide you towards a deeper, more rewarding life by nurturing your emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual well-being. We're thrilled to take you on this journey. Welcome to today's episode. So welcome to today's episode of your authentic self. Today, we're gonna be talking about a topic that is probably gonna be relevant to everybody watching or listening this, and we've called it child, teen, adult. So where to begin with this is quite a deep subject, isn't it, Lee? So I'm thinking about kind of a little bit about what this means in terms of ourselves. So, all of us are made up of different parts, aren't we? We're all made up of different parts of of self. So we might have a child part of us. We've probably got a teenage part of us. Yep. Got an adult part of us. And there's other parts too, isn't it? For for the sake of this episode, should we just focus on the child, the teen, and the the adult. Yeah. And we've talked about other other parts in in other episodes, can't we? So probably most people, who Who are listening to this wouldn't necessarily stop to think about how is my child presenting in this? How's my adult presenting? Where's my teenager? So I think it's worth us just kind of explaining a little bit about what happens to you, have these these parts of us come into being. So To my understanding, do do add a little bit of you. Of course. Do you have anything, that's, that's slightly different to this? So the child part of us, Of course, exists when we're in our childhood years. And then sometimes, in childhood, we experience trauma. And what we have to recognize is that the trauma for a child might be different to what we consider to be traumatic as an adult. So for example, Losing a teddy bear for a child could be absolutely traumatic and devastating. But for now that we might just think, well, you could just get a new teddy bear. We've got hundreds of others upstairs. Mhmm. So so actually what's Traumatic for a child is very different potentially to what we might consider to be traumatic as an adult. Mhmm. Yeah? Yeah. So when these traumas happen in childhood, The way I explain it, it's almost like, like time is frozen. And so there's a part of us that gets frozen in time. So we actually, You know, continue to grow older that we have, I don't know, 6, 7, 8 year old child part of us, for example, that gets frozen in time, but Still influences are still, you know, has those feelings, those thoughts, those worries, those fears that he had back when he was 6. So I think he might be 46, 56, 66. It doesn't matter, does it? There's still that child part frozen in time. Yeah. So Yes. And calm with that. Yeah. I'm with you so far. You're with that. Yeah. So then what happens I think is we obviously get into our teenage years. And, You know, stereotypically, teenage years are kind of more of a rebellious time, aren't they? A time when we kinda kick back. We start to find our own authority. We've got more freedom, more independence. And so I think what can often happen is this teenage part of us, almost like emerges as like a protector. Mhmm. So the idea of the of The teenage part is that it protects the younger child part from further hurt, from further trauma, from further humiliation, from shame, And it can do that in all kinds of ways. Perhaps we'll we'll share some of our own examples in a bit, but, the the teenage part will try and Text the vulnerable child part from re experiencing anything that's similar to what it's already been through. And then, hopefully, we had we managed to develop some kind of connection to our adult self. Mhmm. And emerges obviously as we go through those teenage years and become adults. But I think the problem is that even when we do get to adulthood, we're still so Heavily influenced by that vulnerable child and by the teen that's doing its best to protect the vulnerable child. So most often when we're Trying to go about our adult lives. We're so heavily influenced, but without awareness of this, that our child part and our teenage part can end up Creating big problems for us, and when we get to be adults, can't it? And and without awareness of this, I think it's just a nightmare because it can, You know, impact on relationships in a negative way, impact on work, on raising children, on our place in society, to our friends and relationships. It can be huge, can't it? It can be. Yeah. Yeah. So I suppose to speak from my own perspective is, Just just going back, you you were saying about the the teenage protecting the young child. Mhmm. But I can remember even from a young age of, I went some through some childhood, adversity and physical abuse. Mhmm. So I remember that time getting a sense of, in in those moments of feeling, anxious, fearful, powerless Mhmm. And being dominated. Yeah. But I can remember even being a child and been being at school then. Mhmm. You know? And any moment that I would feel that, maybe another choice, dominate me or Mhmm. And t tricks. I mean, that's when I would need to protect myself. Yeah. You know? So, but then I would, you know, disconnect from that. Yeah. Powers and think I'm not being dominated. So then I would try to be the dominator Yeah. Anything Yeah. To not feel anxious Yeah. And powerless. So even from a young age, I've I've still still that protector was still was still coming in, which, as you said, but then if you're still having those adaptive behaviors in in adulthood, it's to is well, it didn't serve me that well at times. No. I can imagine. Yeah. Well, it's it's hard, isn't it, to be an adult kind of behaving in in the way that a 6 year old might or to be an adult and behaving in the way a 14 year old might. Yeah. It doesn't work so well, does it? No. It doesn't. No. You know? Not not in in interpersonal and intimate relationships. No. Well, not not in any relationship. In any relationship or in any walk of life, you know. No. There's not gonna be many partners is it who, you know, tolerates A grown man having a temper tantrum on the living room No. No. Car sick. This is not gonna happen, is it? Or an employer who, you know, is gonna tolerate somebody storming out of the workplace because they've been upset by something. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't work, does it? You know, we can understand how the I said the toddler might storm out of the room because they're upset, but you know, you're not gonna get away with that in the same way, won't you? And even comes in with Tina, isn't it, because my teacher was very, very anti authority. Mhmm. But even getting into adult life You're getting into work. You know? As you you're saying, if you've got a a boss or work with someone, you can't be anti authority every single thing that they want you to do. Absolutely. Yeah. So we can't be arguing at every moment. Nice. You know, and, picking up barriers all the time. Absolutely. So you you shared a bit about yours there. I mean, my my child was, incredibly neglected. There was no kind of, emotional needs You know, kind of no no attention, no love, none of those kind of things that children really need. So my my young child self was, really Starved of all that kind of positive attention and, you know, love and and and, affirmation and all of those things. You know, nobody, It was around to have a play with me as a child. You know, there was no kind of, mom playing games with with me or any of that kind of stuff. And so as I became a teenager, of course I was absolutely, you know, starving life for this kind of positive attention. And so as a teenager to to try and compensate for that, What I did was to develop like really strong people pleasing tendencies. So I actually, you know, really worked hard to make everybody was okay, that I looked after everybody. To to my own costume, it it didn't matter to me if if I was okay or not. It was more about is everybody else okay. What I what I realized through doing that was I used to get a pat on the back for it. Mhmm. Not necessarily from from my parents, but it would be other people like a friend of the family might say, oh, isn't he good? You know, does he look after you well? My family's incredibly dysfunctional, so it's hard to for for some people, it's hard to get their head around this, but I remember my mother's father thanked me for taking care of my mother, Which strikes me now as quite bizarre. You'd think, you know, it's not my role, is it? As the as the child or the teenager to take care of my mother. If anything, maybe He, my grandfather could have taken care of his daughter, but no. It's all all very messed up. But what it what it led to was the only kind of positive regard or or affirmation I got was from outsiders. So like my grandfather who was saying, you know, Kai, you've done so well looking after your mom and friends of the family saying, oh, I see. She's really good. And, of course, this felt good. I wanted this. I wanted this praise, this affirmation. Alongside that, there was also a lot of violence going on in my childhood. And so my teenage self was kind of like merging People pleasing with protection. So I was wanting to please people and protect people. And so my my child self. You've never got frozen in time to the trauma of not having had needs met. Became well, he's still Then was very vulnerable, you know, like, this this child not having his needs met. Then my teenager that would please and protect, and then Got into adulthood, and of course heavily influenced by those processes. No no surprise I became a therapist, is it? You know, wanting to kind of protect, and And look after and please people. So in adulthood, I think the idea is that we need to be get ourselves into a position where we can kind of Manage the whole process. So now I've learned that my adult self can kind of take care of the needs of the child, and settle soothe the teenager. So now, like, it's it's it's like my adults in the driving seat. And then my child and my teenager are still there, but they're not driving the car. And I think that is really what we all have to kind of aim for. Yeah. Yeah. Because, young child or teenager, They do still pop ups and times, especially when when we're triggered in the situation or when we're something that's difficult. Mhmm. But like you said but it's about that awareness then, isn't it, hold on Then bring an adult in, actually, to actually just to self soothe because that's what it is. What we're doing is we're we're we're meeting our adult, then it's just meeting the needs of what child Yeah. Needs, which we didn't get Yeah. As a child. Yeah. Because, we didn't have the, the caregivers or the adult around and say, listen. Everything's It's okay. This is understandable. Everything will be okay. Yeah. Except we didn't have that. So that's what we need to bring into ourselves now. Absolutely. Let ourselves know now. Hold on. Yeah. Everything's gonna be okay. You are good enough. You know everything works out okay. Yeah. So we need to be adult now. Absolutely. I suppose that's when they call it here, re parenting yourself. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. But we can only reparent ourselves if we have the understanding that there's a child part of us Yeah. That needs reparenting, You know? And, you know, I mean, the the examples that we're using are quite extreme, aren't they? You know? You you talked about violence. I talk about, neglect, and, you know, I too have experienced physical abuse, sexual abuse. So, you know, what we're talking about is quite extreme stuff. Yeah. But, you know, it could be far less extreme, and and you still have a child self That didn't get its needs met. That's true. Needs for affection, attention, love, appreciation. Just being played with. Being played with. Yeah. You know, even A child who's being allowed to be themselves, you know, without being conditioned by what the parents think they should be doing, or who they should be. Yeah. These things are traumatic for the child Yeah. Himself. So if we don't recognize that, you know, actually our child did experience To some extent, a traumatic, time and possibly then got frozen in time. We're not gonna be able to reparent it, are we? Because we don't even know it exists. Yeah. So so So I suppose that's important, isn't it? How how do we know that our child self is frozen in time and is influencing us? There's a question. There's a question. I'm asking you. I'm asking myself as well. How do we know? Do you have any thoughts on that? No. Really. Obviously, from my own process. I've had to, you know, obviously seek therapy, seek, you know, internal my own stuff and and look into it. So it's it's up to you actually look into it and question and quarantine certain situations. For me, that is happening. So yes. So so so just self awareness and self development is is how I became aware of the child. The sense that I've become aware of all this stuff of, getting the sense of being triggered by feeling powerless or anxious or fearful. Yeah. That that's sense yourself around neglect in the sense of I was abandoned, and I had some abandonment, some rejection as a child. So There was a sense of not feeling good enough, you know, for me, and not feeling heard. Yeah. So I'm aware now for myself because that's where I got the insight. So now that that still creeps up at times, I don't feel good enough or, I'm not feeling heard. Mhmm. But I'm aware now that's that's child that you rise not. So it's just that self awareness. I'm thinking that this is the child in me right now. I'm not just with you. But once then, adult comes in and actually well, actually, is it through. I just thought, is it true that you're not good enough? Right. You know? Because you are good enough. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? And and you are being listening, and you have your space and time. Just letting them out of their space and time. Yeah. So just bring the adult in on that. So So you're so your adult then is is almost like soothing the child, Reassuring him, letting him know that he is good enough. Yeah. And some compassion. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Which again is is often missed in childhood, isn't it? You know, if if If you're in a childhood you don't get that kind of parental soothing, you know, you're not gonna be able to self soothe. Are you not gonna be able to regulate your own system when it Kinda goes into some kind of trauma response. No. That's I said, I think that's what I was saying just now is that we if we didn't have the caregivers around us to actually help us Emotionally regulate because at times when we're going through this, like we said, it doesn't matter if it's a more of a traumatic experience or just on a more subtle experience. It's still trauma. So if you're not being played with, not being taken up for a walk Yeah. You might feel a bit isolated. Might feel feel a bit lonely. Yeah. But then again, obviously, you get more traumatic stuff like physical or sexual abuse or or anything like that. Yeah. It's still gonna bring up an emotional Yeah. Response. I think so. Yeah. And and if you're not being supported to emotionally regulate Yeah. And and stand up. And not just on a cognitive level to understand because, yeah, at those times it's confusing what's going on, and then you don't know what you don't know what to do. Yeah. So if you haven't had that caregiver at that time to actually help you emotionally regulate, work things out on on a cognitive level Yeah. It's gonna be, we need to adapt to that, don't we? Yes. Absolutely. But as you said, but as we get older adult, we need them to be the adult to come in and fulfill our needs Absolutely. To be compassionate for self. I think that's the main thing. How how we how our adult can be compassionate. How we can meet our start to meet our needs when things are difficult. Yeah. I think that's so important, isn't it? Because if we Eternally look for the outside world to meet our needs. We might be disappointed because I think generally the world's not that good at meeting our needs. Emotions. About reliable, isn't it, compared to how reliable we can be for ourselves? And and and life's sorry. And life's difficult for us, you know Yeah. Yeah. You know, and the only person that can be there for ourselves 24, hours a day is is ourselves. You see. Yeah. So it's nice to get somebody else's Yeah. You know, input and and support. But they have their own complexities as well, so it it's important that we take responsibility to bring our out of it. Yeah. Definitely is. I was just gonna go back to to the bit about how do we know if it's, if our child's present. And and in my work, what I what I do when I'm working with people is is kind of look for How is their child self presenting? So I kind of almost start work from the assumption that it will be there somewhere. I've just got to kind of notice what it is that they're saying or How they're presenting or what it is they're doing or talking about that reveals the child self. And often what I'll notice is that when when there's something going on for the child part of the person, There'll be vulnerability. Yeah. There'll be unmet needs. There'll be hurt, pain. Yeah. Something that we could classify as as vulnerability. Yeah. And then I then I look out for the teenager. How's the teenager presenting here? And more often than not the teenager will acting kind of like a rebellious Kind of sometimes angry, kind of preserving way, you know, kind of anti authority or, you know, kind of quite, Obviously, angry about what's going on to the child part. Yeah. So I'm watching and listening, and trying to find out in the person I'm working with, how do these 2 parts present, and then I'll kind of just present to to the person I'm working. Like, you know, I I wonder if if you notice there's a, like, a child part of you here, and I think there might be a Protective teenage part here, and often it makes sense to people. Mhmm. And once we've got that awareness, then we can start looking at how these these younger parts, you know, the child and the team, How they're they're presenting and and Hit the moment. Influencing in the current Yeah. Yeah. Time of adult. And usually for people, they they don't know that, you know, that's kind of like a bit of a eye opening revelation to realize that they're actually Three people. At least 3 people. Yeah. Yeah. In 1. Yeah. And that's when you can start doing the work then actually. How how then they can bring their their adult in, you know, and then and as you said, get that awareness of them and then knowing, this is my child. Because I I find that works sometimes even having that self awareness and say, oh, this is my child Absolutely. Me right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then all the other stuff that I've taught you just now. Okay. That's okay. You can you can be with this. You can deal with this. Absolutely. You know? I I've got I've got an example of this. This kind of manifested in my eyes. Very embarrassing, but I'll share it anyway. Right? So so my child got really vulnerable. No no emotional needs met. Okay? Teenagers kind of trying to protect him by saying things like don't trust people. Mhmm. Yeah. Don't don't get too close to people because they're only gonna let you down. Better off on your own. So this is how my teenage self tries to protect me from, you know, kind of being in a position where I could re experience that vulnerability that Almost like that rejection of not being cared for, you know, not being loved and looked after. So, like in in adult world, I think I've got this Farm under control these days, but, you know, not that long ago, my teenage self would have just said things like just don't have don't have any relationships with people, don't have any friendships. You know, you can't rely on them. You can't trust them. Don't bother. And this, of course, is my ad my my story, my team in itself trying to protect my child from re experiencing What he rented when he was a child. So okay, that's that's great. But of course, it then means as an adult, I can't enjoy friendships or, you know, go out and join in social groups and things. So I've been I've kind of been brave and and joined men's groups. But even now, like, I've been going for months. Year, every year to one of them, but my teenage self every time will say, it's a long way. It's a bit dark. You got work tomorrow. You're tired. Don't go. And, honestly, the list of reasons why I shouldn't go that comes from my teenage self just goes on and on and on. And so what adult me then does is comes in and just compassionately says to him, I know you're scared, but we're going and it's gonna be alright. Yeah. And then we go, and of course, it's absolutely fine. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's a bit embarrassing that I kind of internal self talk that I have to go through just to get to a group or something. Yeah. But how wonderful to have that awareness though because before I probably just wouldn't have gone. I wouldn't have even looked for a group, never mind be part of it. And I can remember some of part of my process of, you know, because part of myself that can appear quite stuff there now is is that I'm not good and I can remember for quite a long time, through my teenage years, through my early early adult. If I didn't feel a sense of good enough yet, I'd walk away. Yeah. Just remove myself because if I walk away, then I don't mean I have to look at myself if I'm good enough or I'm not good enough. No threat. No threat there. So it's about safety and protection. And it's also goes around about education as well. Because I can remember sometimes that, you know, when I first started getting into proper education and Trying to get diplomas or certificates, etcetera. And I can always remember, and and this still can happen to me now. It's happened to me in the last couple of years, you know, of, god, this is difficult. I don't think I'm gonna be able to get, you know, child me. I don't think I'm gonna get through this now. This isn't really for you. Yeah. All that into Then it's love. No. No. Actually, you you you know what's happening here. Yeah. This is just a part of you that doesn't feel good enough. Yeah. You are good enough. And then evidence it. Yeah. What you've done before. Mhmm. You know, you the last course is fine. You got through that course. You can get through this course. Yeah. You know, it's just a difficult And you'll get through it. And you'll get through it again. Yeah. So let's bring that adult in again just just to settle me and suit me a little bit. The the adult has to be in the driving seat. Has to be in task. Has to be. Where if it isn't and the child is, then then I just walk away. Yes. But there there'll be problems right there. If the child or the team's in the driving See, you know, as in and in real life, you wouldn't put a 6 year old in the driving seat of the car. No. Probably wouldn't put a 13 year old in the driving seat of the car. Yeah. It isn't gonna go well, is it? It's gotta be the adult. No. No. No. So I think what happens is the child, almost like becomes like separated. You know, kind of frozen in time fragmented from from the rest of us, kind of protected by the, the teenage part of us. But it's still there. Its influence will still echo through life. So there it is. Let's just say this this child took by myself really on, but this child didn't get its needs met. But those needs didn't go away just because you got older, did they? You know, those those needs are still there. Mhmm. And then kind of echo through time all the way through to today. So, For example, if if I didn't get my my needs for love and affection met in childhood, my child self will still be trying to get those needs met. So we're looking for them to be met through, collegial relationships, partnerships, you know, romantic relationships. It's still gonna be trying to Those needs met, which may or may not happen. Yeah. Because like I said, the world's not always so reliable, is it, of meeting those needs? And then and and how fair is it really to expect my kind of, you know, adult romantic partner To be meeting the needs of my 5 year old self. Mhmm. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's it's a bit kind of dysfunctional, isn't it really? It's not gonna go down well. No. And I think this is a big problem in relationships, you know. If you if you kind of in a relationship as a 5 year old or a 15 year old, But you're actually 45. It it isn't gonna go well, is it? There might be a little problem. That could probably be a big problem. It could be a costly divorce. But it's about getting the adult in the relationship, isn't it? Yeah. So we could you know, to some extent, I guess, we could friends or romantic partners or whatever to meet the needs of our child and, you know, probably in a in a loving functional relationship, there would be an element of that. Mhmm. And if I've got flu or something and my wife brings me a cup of tea in bed while I'm feeling sorry for myself, you know. I know there's a a child part of me that kind of really loves that because my mom never did that so that my child likes that. But then, you know, I hope I'm not, Kind of the end of now here, but I think there's also an adult part of me that, you know, can also be in adult relationship as well. Yeah. To some extent, our adult relationships might go some way to meet the needs about child. But I think, predominantly, it's gotta be like you were saying about the adult taking care Yeah. Of our child. Yeah. And like I said, just now, it's it's it's nice if, we're talking about intimate relationship with our partners now, but it's okay. It's it's nice if our partner is aware of our needs and and want to help support our needs. Yeah. And we can embrace that and appreciate that. But at times, they're not always gonna be able to do that. So that's about we need to take care of ourselves, take responsibility. Ability to do so. But I think that also goes back to what you say. How are we aware? So I think that's the fundamental. We need to be aware of our child. Yeah. That can rise up in us sometimes because if we're not aware of it Yeah. And we can get carried away with it, our partner definitely isn't gonna know that No. No. Is this child. No. In us is all it looks like is is is a problem Yeah. And a sulk. Exactly. I was just thinking that you Storm upstairs soaking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the partner might just smile with them, you know. Good. And that's a good thing because if we start getting aware of of these child parts of us. Mhmm. And we can actually then be compassionate to that and and be adult to ourselves and and self regulate ourselves. That's good on its own, but, obviously, if we're aware of our child, and then we can actually then express that and explain that Yeah. To our partner. That's gonna be more beneficial and give them some more understanding. Absolutely. But it's about owning it. And and that's exactly it. That's that's adult. Need to kind of know what's going on for us since we're able to explain to our partner. I'm not gonna say partner me. It could be anyone. Couldn't it? You need to explain to the other person that this is what's going on for me right now. That's adult, isn't it? Because we're kind of knowing what's going on, we're taking responsibility for it, we're owning that process, and we're communicating that as an adult the world. Yeah. Yeah. And then the then the world can respond, can't it? You know, somebody might say, oh, god, you know, well, I really appreciate you telling me that, you know. I get to know you a bit better. But if we're just acting from our child or our teen self, you know, we we wouldn't even think about explaining to world what's going on. You know, 5, 6, 7 year old children don't necessarily think about explaining to the world what's going going on for them, what they need. They're doing something that adults are perhaps more interested to do. Not sexual part there, but, you know, the complexity of that. Yeah. It needs kind of like an adult maturity to And it just boils that because, and also that is gonna bring, And also that's helping out the, the the teenage. Mhmm. That's as well we say because I relate to you as well as the teenager. I'm not trust anti authority, not trust him, but actually Then bring an ad away in and having those conversations. We're talking about partners. It could be a partner. It could be a bot. It could be anybody. Yeah. You know, but actually it's starting to build trust, letting someone in being vulnerable, which builds a deeper connection and bond with the other person as well. Because the other way is just shutting down Yeah. And pushing away Absolutely. Which is which is not serving. No. No. It won't do. Will it? No. I think one of The the biggest blocks I find in in my work is that, the teenage part, which which of course can be, you know, rebellious and and just trying to protect From further vulnerability or harm. So I think that the teenage self can very often, almost like presenters of block, you know, when I'm doing therapy work, the teenage self can kind of be distrustful of me, the therapist, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Because why would it trust me? It doesn't trust anybody. Just wanna keep the child vulnerable what's going on. You know, trying to work with the the child part of the client, and the teenage part can very often come in and try I am, you know, almost that stand between me and their child self because they don't want the child to be vulnerable. They don't want to be rejected, hurt, upset, whatever it is. So Sometimes I have to spend some time getting to know the the teenage part of the client and winning over their trust. Yeah. So that they trust me, you know, that I'm not gonna Cause further harm. No. Or reject the child part or whatever it is. And that that can be quite a job. Yeah. It can be a job. But that's when in that moments, then we can actually meet some of their needs by just letting them know I'm here to support you. Yeah. It's gonna be okay. Yeah. You know? And and and building some of that trust up and and and that relational stuff. Yeah. Absolutely. But the the the teenager protector part can be So incredibly clever, can't it? You know, you can, you know, just for example get someone to just drop out of therapy. Just you don't need this anymore, you know. Don't need to keep going to see them. Will that be understand? Just like I said just now that, that part of me could relate to that because if they're not feeling good enough or or they're not being heard in that situation, squeeze. Well, I'm over here. Stop that. Yeah. I'm off. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that definitely has happened, I think. And I think it's I mean, I've done it myself in therapy. I remember, once a therapist kind of promised to send me a birthday greeting and then forgot. So you can imagine straight away my teenager's in to protect my child self From re experiencing that rejection, that nobody cares type feeling, and so my teenage self just basically ended the world without purpose. So rather than actually talk to the therapist about how that fell, what teenage me just said, well, he he obviously doesn't care, don't waste your money, don't bother. Right. And and didn't go back. So teenage me was trying to protect the little me from further hurt that you imagine this therapist was gonna inflict. But actually, this this was some time ago now. I think what adult me would do would be step into the driving seat and actually say let you know, you you said you'd do this, you didn't. That's left me feeling quite vulnerable, you know. It's left me feeling like I can't trust. But that would be adult me having a more adult Relationship and conversation with that therapist, wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the fundamental. It's it's about, Getting not just be starting to get aware of of the child, the infant child, the teenage child, but then starting to learn and how to bring adult self in and start with compassionate. Yeah. Be compassionate. Yeah. Be self regulating, etcetera, which is gonna be the support part. And and finding that compassion for ourselves is hard. Isn't it? Mhmm. You know, like, I guess, you know, generally speaking, you know, everyone can kind of have compassion for, I don't know a 6 month old cute little baby sitting there gurgling away, but is it is it to have compassion for a kind of argumentative angry 15 year old? Yeah. It takes a bit more, doesn't it, to find compassion? But for somebody who's a bit more, you know, kind of argumentative and perhaps provocative or They're difficult to live with. Yeah. So it's how can we find that compassion for for these parts of us that are difficult Sometimes, you know, that are either in pain and hurting or can be a bit rebellious and nightmarish at times. It's hard, isn't it? Yeah. I think that's when and I know we're probably gonna do the other you you've discussed it already before that we'll be talking about other different parts and stuff, but that's about then Relearning and how we can bring these other parts in to help us be more compassionate, you know. Be be aware of, what we're thinking. Grow your emotional muscle around the the the triggers and the tailwinds. And for myself, as you know, that I am you know, around artwork. Yeah. Recognizing as you are open as you are closed because I know my my teenagers around, my art's definitely closed. Yeah. And then I know that. You've got a phrase. What's your phrase? My phrase is what when and I still do this myself now. Yeah. When my heart's closed, I keep my mouth closed. Yeah. Because I know when my art skills, I'm probably more likely to say something I'm gonna regret or I don't mean. Yeah. Yeah. So, I definitely still say that to self now. Good phrase, isn't it? Yeah. Because if anyone's heart's close, what's gonna come out of mouth is probably gonna be That's right. Defensive Yeah. Horrible and unkind. Another thing is, what I discuss with people as well is and and you started to touch it as well is what's most important is is how we are internally. Because because however I am and however we are, and I'll talk about myself, but this is for everybody. Yeah. How whatever's going on internally for myself. So if if my child is present or my teenage, teenage me is still present and be thinking very negatively. Yeah. I think, well, you know, why should I do this? I'm not doing this. I can't trust them. Yeah. You know, and now now look at this. I'm more for you. Now if I try to communicate from that space internally, it's gonna come out Yeah. Frustrated Yeah. Angry. Yeah. That's what's gonna help. But if my internal dialogue is more Starts to be more more compassionate to myself. Listen. You are good enough. It's okay. Mhmm. You can have this conversation. Mhmm. And this time next week, everything will probably be okay. Yeah. Now that's a lot more calmer. Yeah. Yeah. Now if I'm like that internally Yeah. That's gonna come up externally. Absolutely. So the bottom line is, however, my internal dialogue is internally that sound where external dialogue's gonna come out. So I try and get myself in a position Yeah. Of of of being more compassionate so that I can articulate love. That's lovely. Yeah. I like that when you when you were going through that, I kind of felt myself almost like being alienated. Like with the first example, and then when he was in the 2nd one, it's like, oh, that's better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because people aren't gonna respond well, are they? To kind of like an angry, ballsy, Aggressive teenage energy. People aren't gonna respond to all all of them to that. And I'm sure their teenagers wanna pick wanna protect themselves. Yes. Yeah. But that's so expensive for because If we're talking to someone from a frustrated Mhmm. Angry part, it's their instinct to to protect themselves. Of course. Yeah. So they're shut down. Yeah. But if I'm if my heart is open, not being more compassionate myself, and then I I talk from that space. They don't have to protect themselves. Exactly. You know? Yeah. That they feel that that they feel a safety in in that and a connection with it. Absolutely. Yeah. God, that could cut down on a few Saturday night fives, couldn't it? I could still do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not not that we do that, of course. No. No. Yeah. We could Yeah. But but in any in any situation any situation where, as I said, Stuff that we're talking about, we're talking about ourselves being important, but it's it's anybody. It could be with our partner, our children, a boss Anyone. Friends, strangers, you know, just that how we are in that situation. You said you said that a few minutes go about emotional muscle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean by that? Well, what I mean by that is because sometimes if, you know, we we haven't been aware of our our our child, You know, and, you know, from a young age, you know, we're we're talking about trauma. We've gone through, you know, and any we've talked about, you know, some serious childhood trauma to to more soul stuff. Let's just take it to childhood adversity. Yeah. And, and we've gone over and over and over. You know? We we need to adapt to that. Mhmm. And so we we disconnect emotionally, because we can't keep on going through that pain because our caregivers obviously already hasn't taught us to emotionally regulate and and self soothe. So what what I describe it as we get into adult, our emotional muscle, I describe it as as like a peanut. Mhmm. So as soon as we feel well, I told myself, as soon as I felt, powerless, anxious feel. Could be lonely. Could be rejected. It don't matter. What it is what we've learned to do. We don't wanna feel that. No. So as soon as that enters Internally, boom. We bounce off to it. But unfortunately, we we then go to our mind then. Mhmm. But, because you can't feel vulnerable in your mind, you can't feel pain in your mind. But what happens there is that we Start getting distorted view of ourself, the world, very negative. Yeah. But I'm sure we can branch out now. I'll get back to the emotional stuff. So So if we've learned to, every time that we feel some, emotional vulnerability, and and we don't wanna feel that, it's quite easier to to come away from it. Yeah. Our emotional, muscles like the peanuts. What we need to start doing is actually start to, have a different relationship with emotions, and start to be able to be able to sit with sense of powerlessness, rejection, loneliness. And and the more we do that, the more we practice that, the emotional muscle will grow. Yeah. Yeah. So, And I I did this for myself. Yeah. So so the more that I sat with feeling powerless or anxious or fearful, I've breathed into it, and the tech other techniques around it, my emotional muscle would grow. Yeah. And it gets bigger. So when that power is coming, all that sense of actions come I could actually start to sit with it, start to be with it. Yeah. I can do that when it's like a people. No. Just one of the conversations. About the way, capacity. Yeah. So that's what I mean by the emotional, Grow the emotional muscle. Yeah. Yeah. That capacity Yeah. Regulation and resilience. And and I guess in an ideal world, that's what the the parent or the caregiver would Would do for the child. Help them to develop their emotional capacity. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you don't get that, then you you're not gonna have the same kind of emotional too which is why people fly off the hook or, you know That's right. Can't control their emotional selves. So if I go back to myself, that's so, Over time, I still got a still it is. I still say this is, these new tools and techniques that we use now is gonna be it's gonna be daily. Because if I don't use this stuff, or just or whatever it is. Yeah. Rejection, whatever. It's just adult meek and it that's okay. You can be with this. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. You know, it it it's natural. So you really you your adolescent really is the parent to your younger self. Parent. And and and just to be just to breathe and just to be compassionate with myself, give myself some awareness, and then gonna be fine. You're gonna be okay. Yeah. You know? You you are good enough. Exactly. Yes. You've bought to say that. Yeah. It is. You are good enough. You can be in this. You know, you can't get through this, and everything's gonna work, and I'm okay. That's the add on me. I'm losing. These are stuff that I still say to myself now. Yeah. Yeah. It's really important, isn't it? Yeah. I was thinking that, you know, like, come back to this idea of how do we know if our child or our teenage self is presenting. I think, generally, if there's some kind of, like, vulnerable type feeling. It's possible that's coming from child, isn't it? You know, like, I don't know, a sadness, a distress, Weakness of vulnerability, you know, powerlessness that's probably gonna be child. If it's something a little bit more angry or or anti authority or rebellious, be teenager. Yeah. And then our adult probably, hopefully, will have the capacity to do what you're describing to soothe those younger parts and say it's gonna be alright. I've got bliss. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, there's a big difference, isn't it, between adult person coping with something difficult in life and the child or the teenage part Dealing with that. Yeah. Hope ideally, the adult needs to deal with the challenges of life. Yeah. And adult life, not the child or the teenager. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes for me, these feelings can kinda creep up. So a few months ago now, but I remember I was washing up, and, just happily washing up, and just suddenly felt really anxious. I thought, why am I feeling anxious? Nothing's happened, you know. It's all okay that day, you know. Felt this anxiety and while I was washing up, I just checked in with, younger me's and what I noticed was in in my mind's eye, I could see this image of this child part of me at play school. Hate play school. Mhmm. I just hated it. I don't know why, just hated it. And I was there, I can I could see little me in this place, because I could Like a village hall place, and I was there in this play school? And I just compassionately added what you're doing there? You know you don't like it. Come come on. And and I've imagined in my mind, so I'm taking little me to my grandparents house where it was lovely, and it was safe, and it was warm, and it was, you know, a place where, As a child, I was cared for. And so I just imagine little me going there. Nan was there waiting to meet him, you know. There you go Nan, you know. And then straight away, that anxiety just dropped away. And that took probably 60 seconds while I was washing the dishes. Yeah. So this doesn't have to be like a massive piece of work, does it? This could be for that was about a minute, you know, and the anxiety dropped away. That's right. It's so we can use it in any form of difficulty or any any emotional regulation. You should say it might be stuff that you said, and also stuff that's just happening just right now. Just bringing that add on. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Just just being compassionate, self soothing, self regulating Yeah. And that's our add on. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, of course, we can do do the same thing. My my teenage self can get quite angry. Mhmm. So I've got 2 bits to the teenage, but the early teenage bit was the the the other People pleasing that I spoke of. Then there's an older teenage bit that's quite angry and Yeah. You know, kind of could kick off quite easily. And so I notice if I'm feeling like I can't contain it and I feel like I wanna really kick off about something, then that's not that older teenage part of me. And so again, just just compassionately. Angry. I'm I'm dealing with this. I don't need to deal with this. Sometimes what I think out for me is is not taking it. It's so serious all the time. It's like, because I know part of teenage me no. I'm just not doing it. That's it. Yeah. Stubborn. Stubborn. Not doing it. But soon as I got some awareness of that, oh, okay. It's just teenage me. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I have to share it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll get it. This is my stuff. It's teenage. Yeah. Just have a little laugh about it. Sometimes I can views. So it's just finding other ways, you know, whatever way you can diffuse it. I think so. Yeah. It can be with compassion, and it can and it can be with self regulation or sometimes it's mental awareness. Just just bring a bit of humor as well. What whatever works. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's really about, isn't it, meeting those unmet needs. You know, When I was in my angry teenage times, yeah, I I don't think that that was authentic me. I don't think I was I mean, yes, I was angry about situation is going on, but I don't think it was it was authentically me to say I was an angry person. That was just a feeling I was having in response to To what's happening in my life at that time. Do you know what I mean? So because we get labeled about this, don't we? We get labeled, you know, he's the angry one or whatever. Yeah. Actually, no. That that wasn't who I was. That was Just something I was feeling at the time in response to some pretty rubbish stuff. That's really important what is you what you're saying because We're talking about being your authentic self because actually when child's present or for myself coming away from that, emotional vulnerability and we're showing a frustrated, angry, sulky, whatever whatever wherever we go to get away from it. That's what people are seeing, and if they are, they're just as sulky, neat, stubborn, angry. Well, no. No. That's not who you are. It's not your authentic self, is it? What's going on is what's going on underneath. It's someone that's just feeling a little bit, little bit rejected or lonely or scared, or anxious, and actually it's about bringing an adult in and then being able to come down and actually communicate from it. Actually, you know what? Right now, I'm just feeling anxious. Yeah. Just now, I'm just feeling a little bit longer isolated. I just wanna share that. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's the vulnerable. It's probably the most authentic Yeah. Thing in us that's presenting in those times, isn't it? You know, the the angry teen or the the people pleasing teenage part is is almost like the inauthentic, And the vulnerable is the is the real genuineness. You know? Because we're talking about we use the word frustration a lot of time. Because I know now, like, if I get straight. And I'll share this with people because all frustration is is what I want to happen isn't happening. Yeah. And that's what you need not to do. And so when you're frustrated, that's what it is. What I want to happen is not happening. Absolutely. Hold on a minute. Hold on. Yeah. And that's we know as soon as you get that awareness, you got a choice in that moment Yeah. To, like, I can either carry on with this or I can just drop down. Yeah. Just get a sense of what's going on right now. Absolutely. Yeah. And and, yeah, like, you know, young younger parts of us want it all now, don't they? You know, there's not many children or teenagers who are happy to wait. No. Not in the modern day. No. No. It's all over yesterday, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I remember when, My stepbrothers were younger, you know, like really young, like children. I I I remember that there were times when my wife was playing with them all over. I would get really jealous. And I was like, what's what's going on here? Really really jealous. And of course, what I came to realize was that It was my child self that was jealous because the attention had gone Yeah. To them. So so my child's needs weren't being met. Yeah. You know, this, This attention has kind of been diverted quite rightly, obviously, you know, to to the children. And my teenager was getting a bit angry. You know? This is Fairies that you don't and kind of getting a bit a bit kind of, rebellious and and angry about all of that. And and luckily, what my Adult was able to do was come in and just kinda say, yeah, okay. But, you know, actually, in this situation, you're the parent to these girls, you know. This this is your wife. She's not your mom. And adult me was able to kind of present a different picture of what was going on which really helped. So you know adult me talking to those younger parts calm them so that then I could go back into the role of being like the parent, the husband, and taking care of the child part of me that in that moment was experiencing, like, needs not being met. Mhmm. But but I think that's just like it takes In relationships when there's children that come along. And just how likely is that that kind of scenario can cause massive Problems in relationships are probably ultimately end up in relationships ending. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. I think it's a huge problem. Yeah. You know, I have worked with, with clients as well that I've brought up probably when the Yeah. You know, because The children come. Because when when they first get into relationship, all their needs are being met, all the attention's on them. You know? So it's it's it's all wonderful, but sometimes when the children come along, it's, you know, The the partner then is all the rightly so, the children that you're looking after, then junior, but it it brings up some in in them. Mhmm. And I've worked with some before that actually that that's actually happened. Mhmm. But because they didn't feel, seen or heard when they were younger. So that that brought the child stuff about all that. I'm over here. I'm I'm still here. Yeah. You know? Can you not see me? Yeah. You know? So that's stepping up, but that's the awareness of us child raising. And emotional. Okay? You know, you're still part of this. Yeah. You know? You're still loved. Yes. You know, you're still included within this. Yeah. Yeah. And that and that time was open. Yeah. Bring backing with that. I think it's essential, isn't it? Because I I kind of when I think about that, I kind of think about, you know, how in another scenario, you know, kids go to bed and then husband, you know, ends up picking an argument with wife, you know, about how awful it was and, you know, needs aren't being met or husband goes off somewhere else trying to find fear. Somewhere where his needs can be met. And just think it I mean, I'm gonna say, you know, it is quite simple. All it needs is the adult to take care of the younger parts within the self. Yeah. That simple as a as a concept. The actual reality of doing that is a bit more complex, isn't it? Yeah. Probably hard to do on your own. You probably need a therapist to Support you to identify those parts and how they manifest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we're having a conversation here about it. But, yeah, it does take a a bit more exploration and and opening, And looking into that over a longer period. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Could cover some ground, didn't we? We have today on that. Yeah. Yeah. So To sum up. I think it's it's got to be about self awareness, hasn't it? Yeah. It's having awareness that, you know, Even if you had a fairly okay childhood, there's still likely to have been things that the child experiences traumatic. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so so, You know, we've we've used extreme examples, but it's also possible that in in the most loving, and and caring of environment, Still, the child who have experienced trauma Yeah. And would, to some extent, not have had all of his needs met. Yeah. Because it's pretty hard, to be to be honest, it for any parent to meet all the needs of the child? Yeah. Yeah. So even take it we can take away that for people to get more than understand that. Take away the word trauma. So just bring in difficulty. Difficulty. Struggle. A struggle. Struggle in a difficult week because, you know, not nothing's perfect. No. A little parent can be perfect. No. So there's gonna be times that they can, you know, give you the attention that you need because they've been work commitments. They might not been very well. So they would they would have been certain time even, you know, in in anybody, however good your your your child was, that time said your needs would have been there at a certain time Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, would have been difficult. It would have been difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Difficult. I haven't think of the example of it, like, you know, a child who's just, you know, been been very beautifully Drawing a picture of something while mom cooks tea, takes the picture to mom. Mom, mom, mom, mom, mom's just like, oh, not now. I'm done just, you know, cooking. And then that child is, oh, the devastation, you know. The this lovely picture didn't get the Yeah. The full recognition that they'd hoped for and probably needed. So, Yeah. You know, I just wanted to really kind of, put across that this isn't all about, you know, the most extreme of traumas, you know. Everybody's gonna experience extreme from the no extreme to the heart. Exactly. And those unmet needs that everybody I think will will have from childhood will echo through life and will reappear in relationships with anybody going forward. Yeah. So it's what you you say as well. So it's gaining that awareness when it comes in. Yeah. You know, because I was you would just keep on repeating the pattern every time. Absolutely. You know my mantra, awareness equals choice equals change. That's right. If you're aware of something, we could Decide that we're gonna make a different choice That's right. And then that might lead to change. Which is a brilliant metric. As soon as you got that choice, as soon as you got that way, as you got choice. You think, right, well, I can continue down this path or actually I can do something differently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But without the awareness, there's no choice. Without the awareness. It's just Almost like operate operate on default. You know, you just keep doing the same thing time after time after time, don't you? So, yeah, the awareness is crucial, I think, in terms Choosing to do something differently. So I think then we come to above the antidote to that is bringing our add on. Absolutely. Yeah. Compassion add on. Compassion add on. Yeah. Because I I I have seen and heard many times where someone will speak quite critically of Their child or teenage self, like, you know, they just need to get a grip or they just need to clear off or, you know, these quiet, brutal responses. Yeah. But it to be compassionate, doesn't it? Has to be love. Yeah. Yeah. Has to has to be love. It's like, you know, I I know with someone up now, we're just going back to it. So I can remember one of my things I would say, like, well, I just don't care. I don't care. You know, actually then it's like, oh, don't it. Is it under a century you don't care? No. I do care. Yeah. Okay. And that was enough for me to then start setting it down, opening my back up to be compassionate about myself. But then Yeah. Because soon as I'm compassionate myself, internally, like I said, just now then externalities. I can be more supportive and understanding and passionate externalities around me too. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, it will, won't it? It will. Well, it will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then there's a difference, isn't it? Like, you you seem to talk to your younger self like in in like a dialogue. Mhmm. Whereas I think what I do is kind of visualize it. So it's just both okay, aren't they? They both work. It's just like, I tend to visualize it more I think. Kind of visualize Like the younger me and and imagine a conversation like using visualization, which sounds like you just kind of have like an internal self talk. Yeah. Yeah. Is that I've had visualization before and and and talk to my young me as a visualization, you know, you are okay. You are lovable, and etcetera. But now you're just generally in today's, Yeah. Terms. Yeah. I I have that. So you do it that way now? Like a terrible dialogue. Now I have had the visualizations before, so I understand that. Yeah. Mean, for anyone listening to this, you know, perhaps wants to get into this work. I mean, it's a pretty emotional thing to do, but there's the, the exercise where you get a photo of your child or your your teenage self and and, you know, really try and build a compassionate dialogue with that that person in the photo. But it's quite emotive, isn't it? It is quite It's quite challenging. And, like, I know you said about the photograph, but there's other ways to do it. Sometimes you can go into the the more of a visualization. Just just remembering what what was you wearing, what what room was you in to wear, what can you remember any smells, etcetera. Really just get a, you know, a real visualization into the century stuff of how it was for you, and, yeah, and then, and then bring adult you in. What would you like to say? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And then I think this is a long something up, isn't it? There's something about pausing, isn't there? And and and just checking out where is this response coming from is it coming from my child? Is it from my team? Mhmm. And if it is or it could be, let me see if our elderly has a different response. Yeah. Yeah. And and just that pause, I think, could just change people's lives Yeah. You know, in terms of interactions with others, different relationships, She know ways of responding to the world. Yeah. I think well, I I don't use that phrase lightly because it's it's been my work for many years, you know, helping people to get, an understanding of these internal processes and get adult in the driving seat, and it does change their lives. Yeah. It does change their world. Yeah. It does. It's Huge, isn't it? So so now it's about, let your adult take care of your child. I think that's it. I think that's it. I think that's it. Yeah. I think that's a good place to end. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Okay. So if you enjoyed this episode, do remember to do the like, share, follow, whatever the option is on the platform that you're watching or listening to this on, and we will see you next time in the next episode. We appreciate you taking the time to listen to us today. If anything you have heard has resonated with you, you'd like to explore more, or have found difficult, you can get in touch with us. Our details are in the show notes below along some other useful links.